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People still believe Team Cassini

Discussion in 'Saturn Dev' started by Runik, Oct 16, 2005.

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  1. Runik

    Runik Staff Member

    Yeah, Saturnin rocks :cool:

    Don't move ! This thread has just been hijacked ! (sorry quys :p)
     
  2. Quick Man

    Quick Man New Member

    If it managed to run at all then I would agree. So far the only emulator to win that title on my system is Cassini.
     
  3. Runik

    Runik Staff Member

    Cassini talking isn't welcome around here ... you should try Girigiri saturn instead ;)

    If you can't run anything else your computer has a problem, because Saturnin runs well on a bunch of computers, same thing for Satourne, Yabause, SSF and others ...
     
  4. Quick Man

    Quick Man New Member



    I like emulators that work. Cassini works; GiriGiri Saturn (better known as GiriGiriGav) does not. I'll talk about Cassini for as long as I have to use it because nobody else can be bothered to write code which works. (I do not define "works" as "generates a GPF error when I attempt to start emulation" (Satourne) or "runs without activity for a few seconds before generating a GPF error or quitting silently" (Saturnin), and I don't like it when developers expect you to have the latest advances in processor technology (SSF).)

    <!--QuoteBegin-Runik
    @Mon, 2005-10-17 @ 08:04 AM

    If you can't run anything else your computer has a problem, because Saturnin runs well on a bunch of computers, same thing for Satourne, Yabause, SSF and others ...

    [post=140768]Quoted post[/post]​

    [/quote]

    Just because it runs on "a bunch of computers" does not mean it works. A working emulator works on 100% of systems; currently only Cassini fills that checksum - it even ran on my super-old VIA miniature computer (albeit at about five seconds a frame).

    Yabause works (congratulations for that) but the emulation is inferior to that of Cassini.
     
  5. Amon

    Amon Staff Member

    Cassini is a hack of Girigiri. There is no new code, just stolen code. So the fact that Cassini works and GiriGiri is weird :p. With all that aside, on my computer I find that Yabause and Saturnin work the best. Yabause has a few gfx problems but runs games better. T

    eam Cassini isnt writing new code, they may steal more code. The people working on Yabuase are making a lot of progress so your claim that other people arent bothered to write code that works is wrong. Try making an emulator from scratch. Yabause seems to be the next big thing in Saturn emulation. I have followed its progress from the start and I like what I see.

    I have used cassini in the past but stopped for 2 reasons. It is stolen code, not just girigiri but other peoples work they are taking credit for. The second reason is that it does less than yabause and saturnin combined. If you really want an emulator to work right now dont bother and buy a saturn.

    End rant
     
  6. ExCyber

    ExCyber Staff Member

    Quick Man: If yabause CVS gives you trouble, file a decent bug report and it might actually get fixed. Developers can't fix a bug that they don't know about or can't reproduce. In any case, don't expect anyone here to help with Cassini, because there's generally too much respect for actual emulator authors in these parts.
     
  7. Quick Man

    Quick Man New Member



    Nothing in Cassini is stolen. All code used has been granted permission for use in Cassini. Sega do not care what people do with GiriGiri so long as nobody makes a monetary profit from their work.

    It helps if you read their forum occasionally rather than just listening to hype.

    <!--QuoteBegin-Amon
    @Mon, 2005-10-17 @ 04:56 PM

    If you really want an emulator to work right now dont bother and buy a saturn.

    [/quote]

    I have a Saturn, but it's damned inconvenient to have to burn a new CD-R (one-use, then coaster - CD-Rs are too expensive, cheap as they are for me at 50 pence a shot) and I don't know if twiddling the laser to read CD-RWs will affect the lifespan of the console.
     
  8. Amon

    Amon Staff Member

    Guess what you are wrong. Cassini uses a cheat program created by Spunky. Spunky did not give permission to Cassini to use his code. There for it is stolen. http://www.emutalk.net/saturn-shack/28880-...rapssini-1.html.
     
  9. ExCyber

    ExCyber Staff Member

    If that's the case, then I'm sure you can link to a scan of a statement from Sega's legal department, on company letterhead? After the crap they pulled initially, showing severe ignorance of copyright law and plain good sense, I won't settle for anything less as proof (and frankly, they shouldn't either, so I don't think this is too much to ask).
     
  10. Amon

    Amon Staff Member

    Heres a link to talk about how code developed by spunky was used in cassini without his permission, and later team Cassini was taking credit for it. Read: Stolen!

    http://www.emutalk.net/saturn-shack/28880-...rapssini-1.html
     
  11. Runik

    Runik Staff Member

    On a complete unrelated note (sort of) ... why do I appear as the topic starter here in the dev section ? :huh:

    As for this "program", I can't believe it's surfacing again ... what's the current version ? 34 ? 157 ?

    Cassini was, and is still :bs
     
  12. Quick Man

    Quick Man New Member

    Because as we all know, EmuTalk is a totally unbiased and objective source of information.

    Keith has held a grudge against Cassini since its inception, to the point of sparking off floods of idiots on the Cassini forums and uploading viruses disguised as new releases of Cassini along with miscellaneous attacks on Team Cassini.

    Second, Snail has already replied to these accusations numerous times if you bothered to register on their forums and read their point of view. Please find attached the content of "email1.txt", Snail's email to Sega regarding the use of GiriGiri.

    Third, this excerpt from the changelog for Cassini 4:

    Lastly, this post on the Cassini forums (go register and read, you might learn something).

    Very lastly, if other emulators are so awesome and Cassini is such a pile of shit why is the following track record for Saturn emulators on my system as follows:

    Satourne 1.1p: CRASHES (GPF) ON "START EMULATION"

    Saturnin 0.31: CHURNS FOR A SHORT TIME AND THEN EITHER CRASHES (GPF) OR JUST DIES SILENTLY

    Yabause 0.5.0: RUNS - SLOW - VDP2 SUPPORT LIMITED AND BUGGY

    Cassini 4: RUNS - MINIMAL SLOWDOWN - OCCASIONAL BUGS DO NOT AFFECT GAMEPLAY TERRIBLY (with very few exceptions e.g. odd layer priority bug - reported on Cassini forums by me)
     

    Attached Files:

  13. Runik

    Runik Staff Member

    You forgot :

    Girigiri : awesome emulator, which runs a bunch of saturn games at full speed

    Cassini : dirty hack of the previous one, less compatible, but already in it's 4th version

    :hehehe:

    Stop talking about things you don't understand :flamethrower:
     
  14. Amon

    Amon Staff Member

    PWNED
     
  15. Quick Man

    Quick Man New Member

    Less compatible? I'm calling bullshit on that one until you can provide some evidence.

    I'll also take your lack of comment on my other points as an inability to argue against them.

    Amon, if you haven't got anything worthwhile to say, don't say anything.
     
  16. IceDigger

    IceDigger Founder Staff Member

    I like my saturn but it needs a new battery. Where can I get one?
     
  17. Runik

    Runik Staff Member

    Evidence were posted on cassini forum, but they're deleted as soon as they're posted ...

    And for your other "points", you're absolutly right, I don't have anything to say as I already stated what was my position toward this numerous times ...

    One thing though : as Snail appears to be your own god, what the hell are you still doing around here ? Why don't you go back to Snail's own little fantasy world, where everybody saying anything about his "work" that doesn't complies to the way that he sees things is just banned ?

    Sorry, I'm talking too much, and you don't deserve it.

    Goodbye.
     
  18. ExCyber

    ExCyber Staff Member

    Sorry, that was an artifact of how I selected the posts to unapprove/split.

    (emphasis added, obviously)

    I have seen this email, and for the umpteenth time:

    - A tech support rep telling you to contact the legal department does not confer permission to plagiarize an emulator.

    - Sega is not the original author of GiriGiri, and no one has made clear the status of Shinya Miyamoto's potential claims to authorship / copyrights in the Cyberdisc emulator. The wording in the email is ambiguous (the copyright itself would not have been up for renewal; see below), but the most plausible scenario is that Sega's license from Shinya Miyamoto expired, with all rights in the GiriGiri core reverting to him. In any case, it is highly unlikely that Sega of America Technical Support would be in a position to give consent on behalf of Shinya Miyamoto's copyright claim.

    - If there was a "theft of the unlock code", it has nothing to do with Gav's GiriGiri hack.

    - Under the Berne Convention for the Protection of Literary and Artistic Works, to which virtually all industrialized nations except Taiwan are signatories, copyrights last a minimum of 50 years unless explicitly placed into the public domain by the copyright holder, and are recongized by all signatories. Thus, the Japanese copyright on GiriGiri/Cyberdisc has full effect in the United States of America and in nations throughout the world until the copyright holder says otherwise or until about 2051 at the earliest (and at least a quarter-century later in the United States).

    Look, I'm not some rabid anti-warez crusader. If the "Cassini Team" had just put together a package of hacked GiriGiri and some other tools and called it what it was, I wouldn't bat an eye. But they've postured it as a new emulator, claimed that it was "open source" when they never had the source to begin with (and tried to pass off a huge chunk of disassembled code as "source") made ridiculous claims about rewriting large parts of it, relabeled other peoples' work as their own, and generally tried to project a fradulent veneer of legitimacy around their little project.

    I see permission for use (not relabeling) of one non-vital component of the Cassini package, preceded by a lot of whining by Snail as to how people are so unfair for despising his hatchet job on GiriGiri and taking of credit for other people's work. As Waring Hudsucker would say, tough titty toenails.

    Of course, their forum is not a very useful place to see this resolved, as they merely delete views that do not support Cassini, or even ask reasonable questions about its legitimacy. Snail himself says that "no further debates, flames, or complaints about legality will be tollerated". In contrast, I have merely removed your posts from a thread where they were off-topic and gave them their own thread. In fact, the original Cassini thread started by Barnito a year ago is still on SX. So if you want to talk about ignorance and being aware of other peoples' points of view, I think SX has a better track record than the Cassini forum.
     
  19. Quick Man

    Quick Man New Member

    I was about to write a huge tirade about this, but decided on a more creative solution. So I posted this on the Cassini forums and ask the following question:

    Where can I, a normal guy on a fairly low budget of around £35, get a PC commlink card for use with the Action Replay for testing Saturn demos? All I need is one of these and I can ditch emulators entirely.

    And now I think I'm coming around to your point of view, given that link you posted to the topic on this forum.
     
  20. ExCyber

    ExCyber Staff Member

    Well, I'm as happy as anyone to put Cassini behind us if you want to talk about serious dev-related subjects, although it would probably be better to start new threads in the future instead of propping this one up.

    I don't think you should need quite that much, unless you get hosed on shipping. The biggest issue with commslink is that all of the cards are ISA cards, so you can't install them in a modern system. If your system is older or you have a spare one sitting around, it really can't be beat for dev though. Another option is the Free Wing parallel port adapter design, but you'd have to build that yourself, and it's not supported by all the comms tools out there (the logical protocol is the same since you're still talking to the AR's comms port, but the software has to "manually" control the mux/demux hardware on the adapter). When it's done, Mask of Destiny's transfer cable will be even simpler to build than the Free Wing adapter (to the best of my knowledge the connection is 100% passive, could probably be made without even soldering), but will need all-new client/Saturn software and a boot disc.

    Rockin'-B has a thread with sources for comms cards here.
     
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